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	<title>Comments on: Mad Birth: Are Today&#8217;s Women Better off than Betty Draper?</title>
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	<description>A Research Blog About Healthy Pregnancy, Birth &#38; Beyond</description>
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		<title>By: Best of the Birth Blogs &#8211; Week Ending September 25th &#124; ICAN Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-1434</link>
		<dc:creator>Best of the Birth Blogs &#8211; Week Ending September 25th &#124; ICAN Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-1434</guid>
		<description>[...] &amp; Sensibility &#8211; Mad Birth: Are Today&#8217;s Women Better Off Than Betty Draper? Amy Romano contemplates today&#8217;s equivalent of &#8220;twilight sleep&#8221; in maternity care: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &amp; Sensibility &#8211; Mad Birth: Are Today&#8217;s Women Better Off Than Betty Draper? Amy Romano contemplates today&#8217;s equivalent of &#8220;twilight sleep&#8221; in maternity care: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sunday News Round-Up, 9/27 » Post » healthyjoyful</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-890</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday News Round-Up, 9/27 » Post » healthyjoyful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-890</guid>
		<description>[...] talks about a new part of Glee as well as how it portrays women as well as pregnancy. A number of bloers have additionally created about a new part of Mad Men featuring bieing born as well as night before [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talks about a new part of Glee as well as how it portrays women as well as pregnancy. A number of bloers have additionally created about a new part of Mad Men featuring bieing born as well as night before [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Ballard</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Ballard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-875</guid>
		<description>So good Amy!  My mom had twilight sleep for my oldest sister and my grandmothers had it for all their children...their description of the experience is heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.  The story about your family is so sad, it makes sense that it is the fire that fuels your passion for women and birth.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So good Amy!  My mom had twilight sleep for my oldest sister and my grandmothers had it for all their children&#8230;their description of the experience is heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.  The story about your family is so sad, it makes sense that it is the fire that fuels your passion for women and birth.  <img src='http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jackie Levine</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-863</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie Levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-863</guid>
		<description>Twilight sleep became an extreme and inhumane convention, but many didn&#039;t suffer silently. In 1957 the Ladies Home Journal, a magazine given to recipes, fashion and the latest in home appliances, published an anonymous letter from a L&amp;D nurse who described and decried the heartless treatment of women that she witnessed on a daily basis. Once they were &quot;under&quot; they were tied down and their legs were tied apart for many hours; they were left entirely alone while their bodies struggled with labor.  She reported that some doctors ordered that womens&#039; legs be tied tightly together to retard delivery while the doctors went out for a meal.  There was a great response to that letter... mothers and other
nurses wrote to the magazine as well, and there was a great scandal. But how far in the direction of real mistreatment of women things had to go before the harm was exposed.

There was another extreme as well.  In 1963, &#039;66 and &#039;69 when I had my babies, there was that incredible grassroots movement to be &quot;awake and aware&quot; and to allow fathers into the labor room.  Where I gave birth, in Brooklyn, NY in &#039;63, if you could produce a marriage license and a certificate showing that you had taken a Lamaze course, the dad could come into the labor room, but not into delivery, which was, of course, an operating suite. By my 2nd and 3rd babies, fathers could come to delivery as well. I know because I took the Lamaze course with one of only three &quot;monitrices&quot; (the Lamaze teachers of the day)in the NY area, of whom Elizabeth Bing was one.  Had I not come across Marjorie Karmel&#039;s famous book &quot;Thank You, Dr. Lamaze, which was sort of in the news during my first pregnancy, I would no doubt, have had childbirth experiences common to the day. I had amazing births with some docs whose curiosity got the best of them, I guess, and I was allowed to pursue my labors freely...but I sure was shaved for the first two.  It was those birth experiences way back then that led me, after retirement from my industry, to my life now as Lamaze educator, doula and lactation professional; the Lamaze Six Healthy Birth Practices are for me the basis and rationale for providing a continuum of care for the birthing women that I teach and support. And yes, the ill-treatment of women, and the condescending delivery of same makes us very, very angry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twilight sleep became an extreme and inhumane convention, but many didn&#8217;t suffer silently. In 1957 the Ladies Home Journal, a magazine given to recipes, fashion and the latest in home appliances, published an anonymous letter from a L&amp;D nurse who described and decried the heartless treatment of women that she witnessed on a daily basis. Once they were &#8220;under&#8221; they were tied down and their legs were tied apart for many hours; they were left entirely alone while their bodies struggled with labor.  She reported that some doctors ordered that womens&#8217; legs be tied tightly together to retard delivery while the doctors went out for a meal.  There was a great response to that letter&#8230; mothers and other<br />
nurses wrote to the magazine as well, and there was a great scandal. But how far in the direction of real mistreatment of women things had to go before the harm was exposed.</p>
<p>There was another extreme as well.  In 1963, &#8216;66 and &#8216;69 when I had my babies, there was that incredible grassroots movement to be &#8220;awake and aware&#8221; and to allow fathers into the labor room.  Where I gave birth, in Brooklyn, NY in &#8216;63, if you could produce a marriage license and a certificate showing that you had taken a Lamaze course, the dad could come into the labor room, but not into delivery, which was, of course, an operating suite. By my 2nd and 3rd babies, fathers could come to delivery as well. I know because I took the Lamaze course with one of only three &#8220;monitrices&#8221; (the Lamaze teachers of the day)in the NY area, of whom Elizabeth Bing was one.  Had I not come across Marjorie Karmel&#8217;s famous book &#8220;Thank You, Dr. Lamaze, which was sort of in the news during my first pregnancy, I would no doubt, have had childbirth experiences common to the day. I had amazing births with some docs whose curiosity got the best of them, I guess, and I was allowed to pursue my labors freely&#8230;but I sure was shaved for the first two.  It was those birth experiences way back then that led me, after retirement from my industry, to my life now as Lamaze educator, doula and lactation professional; the Lamaze Six Healthy Birth Practices are for me the basis and rationale for providing a continuum of care for the birthing women that I teach and support. And yes, the ill-treatment of women, and the condescending delivery of same makes us very, very angry.</p>
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		<title>By: Vonda</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Vonda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-861</guid>
		<description>This is absolutely crazy! I heard my aunt talk about not knowing a thing when she had my cousin, she went to sleep and woke up several hours with a baby boy. S A D!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absolutely crazy! I heard my aunt talk about not knowing a thing when she had my cousin, she went to sleep and woke up several hours with a baby boy. S A D!</p>
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		<title>By: Jill--Unnecesarean</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill--Unnecesarean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-859</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-855&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Kathy &lt;/a&gt; 
&quot;It’s one thing to choose something; it’s another to have it forced on you because you have no other choice.&quot;

Exactly. Words to live by, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-855" rel="nofollow">@Kathy </a><br />
&#8220;It’s one thing to choose something; it’s another to have it forced on you because you have no other choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly. Words to live by, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-855</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-850&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Elizabeth Allemann&lt;/a&gt; 
This is something that has long been a curious observation -- that the early feminists demanded drugs in labor and medicalized childbirth (including twilight sleep), as a way to equalize the sexes and to keep women from having to &quot;suffer&quot; during childbirth. Now, many feminists are demanding undrugged births and no medicalization of childbirth, to keep birth in the realm and sphere of women (home birth, midwives, or unassisted births, rather than male OBs and male-trained female OBs).

It is true that women demanded drugs and twilight sleep -- but it&#039;s also true that doctors would go to women&#039;s groups and pitch twilight sleep, or doctors would encourage women to go to women&#039;s groups and pitch it as some great thing, so that more women would have hospital births and fewer women would stay home. It was part of the &quot;demeaning home birth and midwives&quot; campaign of the 20s.

What happened, though, is that women lost control of the process, when they went to the hospital, and while some may have liked a &quot;painless childbirth&quot; (or at least, being unable to remember the pain of birth), many others didn&#039;t like being on the assembly line. It&#039;s one thing to choose something; it&#039;s another to have it forced on you because you have no other choice. It may be that originally, twilight sleep was a choice; but once it became standard in hospitals, just like other drugs and procedures even today, many women had no choice BUT to submit to it, even when they did not want it. My mom was given general anesthesia with all 4 of her births, all without consent, and with her last (me) she literally begged them not to knock her out because she was planning on getting her tubes tied, and she wanted to know what birth actually felt like. They still knocked her out. And gave her a pubic shave and an episiotomy. All without consent.

You are right, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-850" rel="nofollow">@Elizabeth Allemann</a><br />
This is something that has long been a curious observation &#8212; that the early feminists demanded drugs in labor and medicalized childbirth (including twilight sleep), as a way to equalize the sexes and to keep women from having to &#8220;suffer&#8221; during childbirth. Now, many feminists are demanding undrugged births and no medicalization of childbirth, to keep birth in the realm and sphere of women (home birth, midwives, or unassisted births, rather than male OBs and male-trained female OBs).</p>
<p>It is true that women demanded drugs and twilight sleep &#8212; but it&#8217;s also true that doctors would go to women&#8217;s groups and pitch twilight sleep, or doctors would encourage women to go to women&#8217;s groups and pitch it as some great thing, so that more women would have hospital births and fewer women would stay home. It was part of the &#8220;demeaning home birth and midwives&#8221; campaign of the 20s.</p>
<p>What happened, though, is that women lost control of the process, when they went to the hospital, and while some may have liked a &#8220;painless childbirth&#8221; (or at least, being unable to remember the pain of birth), many others didn&#8217;t like being on the assembly line. It&#8217;s one thing to choose something; it&#8217;s another to have it forced on you because you have no other choice. It may be that originally, twilight sleep was a choice; but once it became standard in hospitals, just like other drugs and procedures even today, many women had no choice BUT to submit to it, even when they did not want it. My mom was given general anesthesia with all 4 of her births, all without consent, and with her last (me) she literally begged them not to knock her out because she was planning on getting her tubes tied, and she wanted to know what birth actually felt like. They still knocked her out. And gave her a pubic shave and an episiotomy. All without consent.</p>
<p>You are right, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Great review. I&#039;ve never heard of twilight sleep before--what a bizarre thing to have happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great review. I&#8217;ve never heard of twilight sleep before&#8211;what a bizarre thing to have happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Allemann</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Allemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-850</guid>
		<description>But twilight sleep was something that women DEMANDED, right?  I&#039;ve read that it wasn&#039;t available in the US (doctors didn&#039;t want to interfere with the curse of Eve), but was available in Europe.  Wealthy women would go to Europe for this, and then began to demand that this be available to US women.  The only other option was unmedicated childbirth, which, for some women, was horrible to even consider.  Be careful what you ask for, cause when the Gods want to punish us, they sometimes grant our requests.  Glad I was born in a time when I could birth at home in a tub.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But twilight sleep was something that women DEMANDED, right?  I&#8217;ve read that it wasn&#8217;t available in the US (doctors didn&#8217;t want to interfere with the curse of Eve), but was available in Europe.  Wealthy women would go to Europe for this, and then began to demand that this be available to US women.  The only other option was unmedicated childbirth, which, for some women, was horrible to even consider.  Be careful what you ask for, cause when the Gods want to punish us, they sometimes grant our requests.  Glad I was born in a time when I could birth at home in a tub.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenni Shaver</title>
		<link>http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619&#038;cpage=1#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenni Shaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=619#comment-846</guid>
		<description>I meant to write..naive enough to not persevere and find the strength to forge on..sorry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to write..naive enough to not persevere and find the strength to forge on..sorry</p>
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